I was wondering how much it would be for a good condition used Niehoff D630 or D631 buncher. Where can I find one, please? Any input is greatly appreciated.

Several quality used machinery dealers that deal in an international market can be found through the Virtual Tradeshow feature of this site. Click on Virtual Trade Show link at bottom right corner of the main WAI site and then Search-VTS System in the upper left link bar. Fill in appropriate search parameters.

Obviously prices will vary drastically between vendors depending on age and condition of machine(s) available.

Also keep track of various auction sites such as www.go-dove.com/.


Erik Macs
VP North American Machinery Sales
Fine International Corporation
148 Oak Street
Natick, MA 01760 USA
508-315-8200 fax: 615-658-1988
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I remember an apraisal given when the company I worked for went bankrupt had the following caveat: Prices are for equipment with a willing seller, a willing buyer and time not of the essence.

that being said, any price is a good price if you need a machine and it is the only one of it's type avaiable.

rb

If you are wondering about the initial investment costs, you will be really surprised after receiving the first bill for the current consumption of the production machine. You have to know that the lifetime costs of a production machine are much higher than the buying costs (Especially single and double twist machines).

If you take a closer look at the wire and cable magazines you will find a lot of new production machine manufacturers but you won´t find really new production machines with added value. This is the result of the low cost and copy cat machinery mentality for the last, let me say 20 years. The real technology leaders disappear, probably there are a few of them on market ... but I don´t see really new ideas ...

The buzzword today is energy consumption. The price for a barrel oil in not $8 or $16 US anymore and will never drop down to these values again.

An important controlling instrument key for the machine buyer will be the quotient between the net energy consumption value for the process to realize and the installed energy value (kVA). It is only a number but it will give rapidly an answer of the technology /quality inside the machine.

Today you will find in magazines the marketing joke "think energy recovery" but this is not really the way to go from the standpoint of a good engineer.
(To pay 100 US$ (money for nothing) to the current provider and to give say 64 US$ (80% output-efficiency multiplied with 80% input-efficiency = 64% total-efficiency) back to the current provider or the system/current circuit does not really make sense)

Best regards

Juan Carlos González Villar
Kabel.Consult.Ing
www.kabelconsulting.de

It would be interesting to know why the market accept a low cost machine for let me say 150.000 US$ (single twist machine, 1250 mm spool, 450 rpm, max. 1000 N) and lifetime costs of round about 200.000 US$ (most of them for current consumption) and not a machine for let me say 250.000 US$ and lifetime current costs of round about 20.000 US$. Probably someone can give an answer for this mismatch.

The same occurs with second-hand-machines but the mismatch is much bigger because of the mechanical wear. The price for a double-twist-machine is probably 10.000 US$ but the current costs/year are expensiver than the investment-costs. You have to know that the main drive of older machines and probably of newer ones works with an efficiency of round about < 60%. That means that you are paying > 40% for nothing. If you don´t believe this value make the following test (nothing will be destroyed): Dismantle the ventilator of the maindrive. After running 20 minutes measure the temperature of the motordrive. You have to pay for this heat (120°...150°, low-cost-technology) and this is money for nothing. This is also a good method for evaluate machines (benchmark) from different machine-manufacturer. Don´t believe in marketing jokes.

Best regards

Juan Carlos González Villar

Kabel.Consult.Ing
www.kabelconsulting.de

Thank you very much for all your informative input. I will look into this.