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Aluminum wiredrawing process

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6 years 6 months ago #1513 by Archived Forum Admin
Bhaup, You may have done your homework but why not do the work.

this was the same type of problem we are facing in our industry. So after seeing your reply to this post, i have done my homework before posting...

- Properly designed drawing oil tanks held at the recommended warm temperature?---partially, not for every machine ARE THE MACHINES THAT ARE PARTIALLY RIGHT HAVING A PROBLEM?
- A drawing oil specifically recommended for 6101 alloy?---no WHY HAVEN'T YOU SWITCHED TO A LUBRICANT THAT IS DESIGNED FOR THE ALLOY YOU ARE TRYING TO DRAW?
- Lubricity of the oil routinely checked and make up added as necessary?---no IF YOU ARE NOT TESTING THE LUBRICANT AND REPLACING AS NEEDED, HOW CAN YOU EXPECT IT TO DO IT JOB?
- A separator for the continuous removal of suspended fines from the oil?---partially done SUSPENDED FINES ARE ESPECIALLY BAD WITH ALUMINUM AND IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THEY BE REDUCED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
- Drawing machine capstans in sets so that they are ground and polished as a set and not as individuals?--No THIS IS A SIMPLE THING TO DO. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE RELATIONSHIHP OF THE DIAMTERS BETWEEN CAPSTANS BE MAINTAINED. YES IT DOES MEAN THAT SOME CAPSTANDS GET REDUCED IN DIAMETER SOONER THAN YOU MMIGHT LIKE BUT IF YOU WANT THE EQUIPMENT TO WORK LIKE IT IS DESIGNED, YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE RATIO OR RELATIONSHIP.
- No grooving on the capstans?---yes, there are grooves GROOVE CAN CAUSE ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS INCLUDING CROSSOVERS THAT CAN RESULT IN WIRE BREAKS AND OR WIRE SURFACE DAMAGE!
- Drawing dies in sets so each complete set is properly managed and reworked as necessary?---no THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EACH DIE IS VERY IMPORTANT. IF YOU ARE NOT MANAGEING YOUR DIES YOU ARE JUST CREATING A WHOLE HOST OF PROBLEMS.
- Drawing dies not replaced as individuals and not left at or lying around the machine for the operators to reuse (good or bad) at will?---no DOES THIS NO MEAN THAT YOU DO OR DO NOT CONTROL THE DIES.
- Carbide drawing dies as recommended by the die supplier for 6101 alloy? (Generally a shorter bearing surface.)---partially but we are trying to use diamond dies. WHEN MIXING DIES REMEMBER THAT CARBIDES WEAR FASTER THAN DIAMOND DIES (NORMALLY) AND IF YOU DO NOT KEEP ON TOP OF THE CONDITIONS, THE CARBIDES, WHEN THEY WEAR THE WIRE ENTERING THE DIAMOND DIE MAY BE OVERSIZED, GROOVEDS, ETC AND THIS PUTS EXTRA STRESS ON THE DIAMOND DIE.
-Adequate lubrication to each of the dies.---partially IF YOU KNOW YOU DO NOT HAVE ADEQUATE LUBRICATION TO EACH DIE WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? ADEQUATE LUBRICATION FLOW IS IMPERATIVE IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ANY DEGREE OF SUCCESS AT ALL!!!!
- Dies aligned properly?---yes
- Die holders of robust design so there is no deflection when running?---yes
- Any unusual noises coming from the machine when running or jogging?---yes SO WHAT IS THIS NOISE? WHAT DOES IT SOUND LIKE? IS IT CAUSED BY THE WIRE/ROD SLIPPING, CHIRPING DUE TO GROOVES, ETC?
- Do the operators crack the lubricant supply open slightly when jogging to ensure that the dies are properly lubricated?---yes

- Is this a taper drafted machine?---no
- Are you drafting the machine according to its design and manufacturers recommendation?---yes
- Are you taking a larger reduction at the entrance die?---no
- Where does the wire normally break? (Say the last 3 dies?)---80- to 85 % breakages are at last 2 dies WHAT DO THE BREAKS LOOK LIKE? DID YOU CHECK THE DIAMETER OF THE WIRE COMING OUT OF THE DIE BEFORE THE BREAK? WHAT ABOUT THE SURFACE CONDITION OF THE WIRE. CAN YOU TELL IF THE WIRE MAY HAVE CROSSED OVER ON THE CAPSTAN AND BROKE?
- How are you welding the rod?---cold pressure welding

these are the informations i can tell you. What i need the same thing?

what is the main reason for these breakages--a mechanical or a metallurgical....

FROM WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD US IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PROBLEMS. MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO MAKE A LIST OF PROBLEMS (SEE ABOVE) AND THEN MAKE A LIST OF WAYS TO CORRECT THE PROBLEMS. I WOULD START WITH THE ONE THAT EASIEST TO CORRECT AND DO THAT. I WOULD TRY TO CORRECT EACH PROBLEM STARTING WITH THE EASIEST AND PROGRESSING TO THE MOST DIFFICULT.
YOU’VE DOCUMENTED YOUR PROBLEMS, TAKE STEPS TO START CORRECTING.

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6 years 6 months ago #1507 by Archived Forum Admin
Hello Moody,

- Have you done all the basics and are you using all the technical resources you should have at your fingertips?

- Properly designed drawing oil tanks held at the recommended warm temperature?
- A drawing oil specifically recommended for 6101 alloy?
- Lubricity of the oil routinely checked and make up added as necessary?
- A separator for the continuous removal of suspended fines from the oil?
- Drawing machine capstans in sets so that they are ground and polished as a set and not as individuals?
- No grooving on the capstans?
- Drawing dies in sets so each complete set is properly managed and reworked as necessary?
- Drawing dies not replaced as individuals and not left at or lying around the machine for the operators to reuse (good or bad) at will?
- Carbide drawing dies as recommended by the die supplier for 6101 alloy? (Generally a shorter bearing surface.)
- Adequate lubrication to each of the dies.
- Dies aligned properly?
- Die holders of robust design so there is no deflection when running?
- Any unusual noises coming from the machine when running or jogging?
- Do the operators crack the lubricant supply open slightly when jogging to ensure that the dies are properly lubricated?

- Is this a taper drafted machine?
- Are you drafting the machine according to its design and manufacturers recommendation?
- Are you taking a larger reduction at the entrance die?
- Where does the wire normally break? (Say the last 3 dies?)
- How are you welding the rod?

We're sure more of these questions will come to mind as we begin to think about this a bit more.

We haven't bothered to check the drafting you supplied as we are not sure what you mean by the average reduction in area.

Kindest regards,

Peter Stewart-Hay
Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com

Oh by the way, you asked about staple cement in April 2005 and we answered it the same day for you. www.wirenet.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=109 We also asked a return question for our own understanding but you never bothered to answer us. Was there a reason for that action on your part?

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6 years 6 months ago #1508 by Archived Forum Admin
Hello peter,
this was the same type of problem we are facing in our industry. So after seeing your reply to this post, i have done my homework before posting...

- Properly designed drawing oil tanks held at the recommended warm temperature?---partially, not for every machine
- A drawing oil specifically recommended for 6101 alloy?---no
- Lubricity of the oil routinely checked and make up added as necessary?---no
- A separator for the continuous removal of suspended fines from the oil?---partially done
- Drawing machine capstans in sets so that they are ground and polished as a set and not as individuals?--No
- No grooving on the capstans?---yes, there are grooves
- Drawing dies in sets so each complete set is properly managed and reworked as necessary?---no
- Drawing dies not replaced as individuals and not left at or lying around the machine for the operators to reuse (good or bad) at will?---no
- Carbide drawing dies as recommended by the die supplier for 6101 alloy? (Generally a shorter bearing surface.)---partially but we are trying to use diamond dies
-Adequate lubrication to each of the dies.---partially
- Dies aligned properly?---yes
- Die holders of robust design so there is no deflection when running?---yes
- Any unusual noises coming from the machine when running or jogging?---yes
- Do the operators crack the lubricant supply open slightly when jogging to ensure that the dies are properly lubricated?---yes

- Is this a taper drafted machine?---no
- Are you drafting the machine according to its design and manufacturers recommendation?---yes
- Are you taking a larger reduction at the entrance die?---no
- Where does the wire normally break? (Say the last 3 dies?)---80- to 85 % breakages are at last 2 dies
- How are you welding the rod?---cold pressure welding

these are the informations i can tell you. What i need the same thing?

what is the main reason for these breakages--a mechanical or a metallurgical....

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6 years 6 months ago #1509 by Archived Forum Admin
Hello Bhaup,

Well what can I say? You have already answered your own question. Correct the problems with your machine, get control of your process and then see where you stand.

You do not need to have taper drafting but get to the bottom of the strange noises coming out of the machine. This indeed could be the symptoms of very serious mechanical problems.

Best regards,
Peter J. Stewart-Hay
Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com

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6 years 6 months ago #1510 by Archived Forum Admin
hello peter,
yeah, i can understand that mechanical aspect also. But other then this, there is definitely the metallurgical aspect also about what also i want to know.

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6 years 6 months ago #1511 by Archived Forum Admin
Here are some booklets you can buy from the Wire Association International:
- Wire Breaks and Failure Analysis (English)
www.wirenet.org/waistore/productdetail.cfm?productid=152

- Dies: The A to Z of Design and Maintenance
www.wirenet.org/waistore/productdetail.cfm?productid=74

- Diamond Dies: Man-Made vs. Natural
www.wirenet.org/waistore/productdetail.cfm?productid=75

If you are interested in the metallurgy of aluminum alloys for electrical conductors:
- Review your local university engineering library.

- Contact The Aluminum Association www.aluminum.org or,

- Obtain the proper ASTM specification, ASTM B317 / B317M - 07 Standard Specification for Aluminum-Alloy Extruded Bar, Rod, Tube, Pipe, Structural Profiles, and Profiles for Electrical Purposes www.astm.org/Standards/B317.htm
Kindest regards,
Peter Stewart-Hay
Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com

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